Creole : It was around ' 75 , Mel was hangin' out with Flash & them - thats how I got associated with Flash. We used to go to Kool Herc parties ; really anybody that had equipment we would go see them in the parks. Herc was one of the few Djs that had legitimate equipment and he would have inside parties and charge people . They didn't have a distinction between who was the Dj and who was the Emcee , because all the Djs Emceed . Pete Dj Jones and those cats had the Hank Span Disc Jockey voice. Timmy Tim , Clark Kent and Coke La Rock were three guys who were down with Herc . Tim & Clark Kent would say phrases like " on down till the A.M. " or " back & forth / forth & back " - just lil phrases , not full rhymes. They would say either nursery rhymes or stuff that the Last Poets had said. My sister Linda used to write poetry , so thats how we were introduced to it in general . Tim & Clark Kent would say it to the beat ; even though it wasn't that rhythmic. It was like " A taste of the pace with the bass in ya face". Because it was done in that pattern we wrote rhymes that were to that pattern. So for me it was Timmy Tim , Clark Kent , My Brother (Mele Mel) and my sister.

JQ : Im told that you and Mel were the first to split words between each other & go back & forth.

CR : Yeah , when we first started rhyming we wrote everything together , so it was a natural progression.

JQ : How about the " throw ya hands in the  air " and all the call and response tactics ; are you all responsible for that ?

CR : We weren't the first , but it was an evolution. Hollywood had mad crowd responses like "where's that place we work it out?" And the crowd responded "at the Alps (hotel) is where we work it out". We thought it was so fly . Cowboy really excelled at that kinda thing , lyrically he wasn't  at the level of me & Mel , but he had no fear of asking the crowd to say this or do that.

JQ : J.D.L from Cold Crush told me that at one time in the early 80's Furious 5 flipped on all the crews at Skate Fever including Cold Crush , Treach 3 & Fearless 4 is that accurate ?

CR : Yeah its true , we had left the streets to tour ; and Cold Crush took over the streets in our absence. We felt that people were disrespecting our street credibility , so yeah we did it.

JQ : What happened with " We Rap More Mellow " why were you called the Younger Generation ?

CR : The guy who put it out was Terry Lewis , not the guy thats down with Jimmy Jam . He didn't think that our name was marketable . He was shady he just released it and tried to get money from the record company so that fell through , but we didn't let it affect us we just moved on to the next man.

JQ : Was that Bobby Robinson at Enjoy Records?

CR : Yeah we recorded Superrappin' with a band . He came to this spot that we played over on 125th, a bingo joint called Randys place and we hooked up that night. People in the streets probably told him about us . After Rappers Delight came out within months there were like 20 rap records out , and he got into recording rap. We were already established and didn't need to be groomed or none of that , he just put us right in the studio.

JQ : What was the climate like at a jam before rap records ?

CR : When we first started givin' shows inside ; we didn't have any concept about strong  security and these kinds of things. When we did shows in the parks it could get a little rough in certain areas of the park if people didn't know you. Every now & again you could get robbed by someone who knew you. Kids were runnin' around with pistols in their pockets and if there was a person that didn't have much respect in the neighborhood they could get taken advantage of. In general people gave everybody respect , take a person like me who wasn't  very large  and didn't have a big family of brothers  even though we did get in gangs we wasn't no real gang motherf*ckers that were going to jail and comin' out establishing reputation like that. If it wasn't for rap I would have gotten taken advantage of. I rhymed and I said these guys names on the microphone so I was in. Even when we were giving shows in ' 76 and we weren't a real group yet - we were a loose group , it wasn't hazardous it was relative . If the stick up kids were comin' to the party to rob somebody , somebody was gonna get robbed. It wasn't enough to keep anybody away . If you came to the neighborhood with a gold chain on , that wasn't a normal thing 'cus people wore silver. So unless you could do somethin' to stop them you were gonna get robbed. As we started goin' inside to do parties we never gave parties for people that were older than us . The Djs in the clubs were playing Diso music and they called us "Hiphoppers" . Flash got down with this woman - Ms. Montague , she had a system and he had records so she let him play on the system and we used her security . Its not like it was a strong security , but this kid Ray Chandler had a club on Boston Rd in the Bronx called the Black Door . We played there with Flash under Ms Montagues security , which wasn't high powered security , but it was enough to keep Niggas in line. No real things happened there when we played ; then when we got down with Ray , and he managed us , he put together a group of strong armed guys from the neighborhood and us , and we played different High Schools - we had our own high powered security , and the only people gettin' robbed was the ones our security was robbin'. Once we started charging $5 for guys and $3 for women people came to our parties knowing that nothing would happen to them inside. Outside wasanother thing ! If someone came from an outside neighborhood to one of our parties and started something there would be hell to pay.

JQ : D.L.B from Fearless 4 and Kool Moe Dee both told me that you were known as the king of the echo chamber , and how you had this greatest show on Earth announcer voice. How did that start , was it just stumbled upon from experimenting ?

CR: Most of the time Flash used a collection of things , until right before we started making records and we had a legitimate system. Before that if we used an echo chamber and turned it up to a certain level it would hum because everything was so haphazard , so we didn't like to use it. But when we could get it to work right we would use it. When you used an echo chamber all you got was echo , there was no on or off. Flash found out that if you plug a foot switch into the back of the chamber that would turn it on and off. But Flash was the king of the make shift electronics so he took a light switch , and found the same kind of plug that would go in the back of the echo chamber . With the foot switch you would have to step once to click it on , and once again to click it off. With the light switch you could click it on or off. This gave the echo chamber a different quality. With this you had a certain energy that you could just unleash on motherf*ckers !! And I felt that . I was the only one who actually felt that the echo chamber could have an advantage.

JQ : What was the difference in Hip Hop in the Bronx and Hip Hop in Manhattan?

CR : Starski still had that disco influence . You could tell that Starski had seen Hollywood play  a few times . He had the same cadences and rhymed rhythmically but he didn't make up his own rhymes. Those Disco Djs they always used nursery rhymes mixed up with their own stuff. When you heard us there would be nothing familiar that we said unless you heard us say it before. We would write everything and it was our own creation.

JQ : What was your reaction when you heard Rappers Delight ?

CR : I was of the mind set of everyone else who heard it - I felt that these guys weren't all that talented , but I didn't understand mass marketing . I didn't think that it would do that well ; it surprised me to no end. But if you take something thats the least bit new and catchy , despite how rudimentary it might be - to those who never heard it it's the cream of the crop. But I was infuriated because these were people who stole lines from other people - I wasn't bothered by the fact that they made a record because I knew that if they could , that with our talent we would get an opportunity to do it . What disapointed me was that they weren't that talented and they stole lyrics from Caz , Rahiem and other motherfu*kers too and it was successful.

JQ : Yeah I thought that Superrappin' was technically a better record , but Rappers Delight was more catchy and interesting.

CR : Oh yeah , I started liking it my damn self after awhile.

JQ : What was it like at Sugarhill Records ?

CR : Well of course she (Sylvia Robinson) showed us the big house and studio. She came & picked us up in big cars ; had us open. But there was an undercurrent of this is OUR family , the Robinson family is first and foremost. If you acted up they would replace ya ass. That was underlying in everything. When we first signed with them they were supposed to give us the information for us to register with BMI & ASCAP so that we could get writers royalties. We never got any writers royalties , maybe Mel did after awhile , but I know that I never got any writers residules while I was signed with them. Like any good relationship at first when we were selling records it was fine . But if we did something that they didn't like they sat us down for like 6 months .

JQ : How was it at Enjoy ?

CR : He (Bobby Robinson) wasn't really thinkin' on that level of promoting us and gettin' us out there. He had his record store on 8th ave and that's what he was focusing on. We had recorded another single with him and we started pressuring him to see a royalty statement. He was through with us. Sylvia approached him with $10,000 to take our contracts off his hands and he said bet.

JQ : What is your favorite song by the original Furious 5 on Sugarhill Records ?

CR : Freedom

JQ : Did you get along good with the Sugarhill Gang ?

CR : We never had any problems. Me & Hank used to get high together , they knew if they acted up we would kick they ass. We never acted like they were imposters and they never turned their noses  up at us . That was Sylvia's group and they took precedent , and for sure if we acted up on them she wouldn't have it .

JQ : Did the rest of the group feel like it was a smack in the face for Sylvia not to include you in the Message ?

CR : Hell Yeah , I thought it was unfortunate when Mel wrote most of Freedom , I didn't have nothin to do with that , I was like Mel let me help you and he was like nah I got it . After they did the Message with just Mel & this outsider that's all Mrs. Rob. heard. After that point on my voice was effectively silenced ! I was very dissapointed about that. That was a point in our careers when we should have held it together and continued recording , we would probably be together right now . I remember I was living uptown in the Bronx and Mel & my Lil brother (King Lou) came to the house and asked me to go on the road with them. I couldn't do it , it didn't make sense ; plus I had signed with Elektra with Flash & Rahiem . That was a low point in our careers it was confusing to the public ; it was just pathetic !

JQ : How did your faction feel about Mel & his faction ?

CR : We didn't have any ill feelings towards them , its not like we made songs with their names it , but we were a little puzzled as to why they chose to stay with Sylvia. It was no real animosity.

JQ : For you on a personal level how was it to have your brother in one group and you in the other ; or were you close as brothers ?

CR : When we were young me & Mel did everything together we were real close. As we become adults we take on different responsibilities , thus changing our lives. Like Mel has a few kids , I never had that. He got married when he was 17 years old , in fact my mother had to sign for him to get married. He has a lot of responsibilities which makes it impossible for him to make decisions that won't put money in his pocket for principle. He has never been able to do that due to his responsiblities. When  you want to make sure that your kids have ; you have to make tough decisions . I understand that so I dont have ill feelings towards any of them. Flash gets a lot of work today because people thinks he is a rapper. I know that they have great responsibilities so I don't hold ill feelings. Many times they have to make tough choices and that's not always condusive to what the other guy thinks. We could get back together now and let it be known that we are back together and we could tour overseas for months. But then the money that some guys are making now would have to be split 5 ways and who would want to do that ? And its not just Mel & Flash the reason that we are not together. That is a major part of it , but everybody has little animosity towards everybody else.

JQ : What made Furious go back to Sylvia for the Piano Lp?

CR : We had gotten away from Elektra and about 6 months had passed . Mel called and said Sylvia  wanted to sign us again. I didn't wanna do it at all , I asked Mel did he think that it was smart. He said that they were the only ones offering us money at the time.

JQ : Who came up with the melodies for Furious 5 routines and songs ?

CR : Rahiem was a real factor in the harmonies , and Mel wrote a lot of the songs.

JQ : How was your experience at Elektra ?

CR : They treated us good and gave us a lot of money , but they didn't know how to market rap. I guess they thought that you could just make a record and release it and people would buy it just because. 

JQ : What made you guys remix " Larrys Dance Theme " ? Back in those days a remix was rare .

CR : That was the shit that was sellin' that album. Niggas was buyin ' the album just for that little instrumental.

JQ : I have a video for " It's Nasty " , Kevie Kev from Fantastic 5 is performing with you guys , whats behind that ?

CR : Me & Mel were goin' through one of our things and I was kicked out of the group and he was my replacement . After awhile they didn't get along with him either , and they hadn't put him out yet when I came back . So for a while he was with us.

JQ : They called themselves Furious Lovers in your absence right ?

CR : Yeah , I had nothing to do with that .

JQ : It's been the highest honor ; I have actually now spoken to Grandmaster Flash & all of the remaining members of the Furious 5....thanks for your time.

CR : No problem anytime.....

As told to JayQuan on 10/14/02  © 2002 JayQuan Dot Com No part may be reproduced without authors consent.

* Special thanks to Grandmaster Mele Mel *

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