 |
|
|
By JayQuan.
April 2007 1982
– 84 brought many classic records that 20 some years later would be
classified as Electro or Electro Funk. This music was perfect for the
style of dance that was sweeping the nation at the time. This style
originated in the Bronx in the mid 70s and was called B boying, but by
the early 80s the media had labeled it Break dancing. Many dances like
the Smurf , The Weboe and others were born from this music. One of the
crews that provided the soundtrack for the dancers, and the kids like me
who loved the up tempo beats and robotic vocals was the Jonzun Crew. The
Jonzun Crew delivered Pack Jam , Space Is The Place , Space Cowboy and
Tommy Boys first full length lp titled Lost In Space. A few years later
Michael Jonzun and his brother Maurice Starr discovered and produced a
group from Boston called New Edition. A few more years down the line
they discovered and produced New Kids On The Block , ushering in the era
of so called boy bands. The Jonzun brothers also did a few more things
that the world probably isn’t aware of , so its my honor to tell the
story of The Jonzun Crew!!! Michael
Jonzun : My life may not be as interesting as what some may think a Hip
Hop pioneers life might be. I was never involved in any shoot ‘em up
stuff or any of that. JayQuan:
That’s no problem. I have interviewed guys from the Bronx , as well as
just musicians who know nothing about the streets , and they all are
interesting , so we should be good! MJ:
What you’re doing with your website is a good thing…… JQ:
Thank you. I have always collected records, as well as magazines and
memorabilia from this era (70s & 80s) , so when the internet came
about ,I figured it was a good medium to let people know that there was
Hip Hop long before Run Dmc. MJ:
Many people focus on Run Dmc (as being first) because they had the right
people But they had to have people tell you that Run Dmc was
popular , no one had to tell anyone that the Jonzun Crew was one of the
most innovative groups of all times. I have articles from Bill board ,
Rolling Stone , The Boston Globe , NME , New York Times , Los Angeles
Times calling us innovators. But people have re-written history with the
wrong information. It doesn’t bother me because I know who I am. JQ:
It was 1983. The whole history of everything before 83 is
underrepresented. But the mainstream media didn’t hop on Run Dmc until
the rock records , specifically Walk This Way with Aerosmith. MJ:
And that was one of my ideas! JQ:
Really? ….. I definitely want to get to that! MJ:
Why don’t I just tell you a lil about that? JQ:
Sure!
I
am originally from Boston , and Steve Tyler and the rest of Aerosmith
who are also from He had no idea
that his song was being played in the ghetto. I suggested that we re do
that instead of 25 Miles From Home. This is not something im making up.
The first time that Steve Tyler came to my house was in the dead of
winter in a house coat. I thought that he was completely out of his
mind. He had on a thin house coat and slippers and that was it!!! We
always knew of each other because they used to practice near my house in
this basement. Aerosmith at one time were underground legends in Boston
along with the Cars , The J Geils Band and the James Montgomery band.
Steve Tyler was no longer a star when I met him , and I was the new guy
on the block. Steve stopped coming to rehearsals and we never completed
any of the songs. A couple of years later you had Run Dmc doing Walk
This Way with Aerosmith!! JQ:
Who were your musical influences, and what instruments do you play? MJ:
My earliest influence was my father. He is probably the greatest musician
that I have ever I
play well over 50 musical instruments amongst them the saxophone, trumpet ,
clarinet , bass guitar , harmonica , violin some of everything. My
father played 30 or 40 instruments. We didn’t have a beautiful home to
live in back then , and instead of spending money on furniture and
clothes we bought musical instruments and lessons. By the early 60s I
had cymbals that cost 150.00. Back then you could buy a nice living room
or dining room set for that money. I had so little clothes that kids
could guess what I was wearing to school the next day. It didn’t
bother me because I knew my fathers vision, and that better days were
coming. All of my brothers except one were multi instrumentalists.
MJ:
That’s right. Our label goes back to about 1967. In those days we
would get our records played in the night clubs. That’s how records
were promoted back then. Many people don't get that concept. But back
then you made a record. When I say you made a record , I mean after the
session was over you would get your acetate , which is a metal plate
with a plastic coating on it. You sent the acetate to the night clubs.
In the studio you would go in and do everything live to
a 2 track recorder. Multi track recording was way too expensive back then,
so there were no overdubs. You might get lucky and get into a 4 track
studio. 4 track was like a luxury back then. You would put the music on
one track , the lead vocal on the other , and you could sing the
background twice. In
about '67 we went in the studio as a family band and cut material. We
would get the acetate and send it to all the clubs to gauge the
response from the audience. Boston International Music started as
Johnson Brothers Records. Pak Man was a cool record. Tommy Boy
picked it up, and we turned it into a jam. JQ:
Did you change the spelling for fear of copyright infringement from
Bally/ Midway (the Pac Man video game creators)? MJ:
We didn’t think about that at the time. Tom Silverman (Tommy Boy
Records founder) just saw it as a jam , so he thought that would be a
better title. I had never even seen a Pac Man video game. I had no clue
what Pac Man was. JQ
The full title of that song was Pac Jam Look Out for The OVC. What
was the OVC?
JQ:
You did the production and engineering on your releases. Where does your
engineering experience come from? MJ
: Well in the 60s when we cut our own records we were trying to be as
independent as possible. We went into a music store in our hometown ,
and there was this Concord tape recorder that needed a belt in it. We
ordered the belt and began recording. By the time I was 9 or 10 I was
engineering. We probably still have that recorder , because we never
believed in selling our musical instruments. JQ:
How did Tom Silverman even hear your Pak Man song being that he was in
New York , and you were in Boston releasing music independently? MJ:Through our distribution. Record pools were very strong in the
early 80s. Boston had space boogie and space funk. We had been recording
it ever since we found that we loved the synthesizer. But Tom heard it
through the marketing and promotion that we were doing. We had already
sold 10,000 copies so he didn’t really discover us, we were discovered
by the people who had already bought our music! I give all gratitude to
Tom for realizing that Pak Man was a great record, because not everyone
thought so. The first time that it was played on radio was I think in
1981 from a reel to reel by Steve Crumbley. This was before Planet Rock
was released. Me
& my brother Maurice Starr built a studio with the money we got from
Sugar hill Records (Maurice & Michael produced Show Down by Furious 5
& The Sugar hill Gang as well as some other singles). I think we
originally did Pack Jam in 1980 or before........We are pioneers of
space funk, and what’s called Hip Hop , but im not too hot on where
its at right now. MJ
:….. I love those guys , but you know they got fired when Maurice
Starr & Michael Jonzun came along right? JQ:
I didn’t hear it like that……but that’s why I like hearing all
sides of a story because everyone tells it differently! MJ:
I’ll tell you, we knew Doug Wimbish before he was with Sugar Hill and
he is a great musician. I came to know him through the Sargent brothers
from Wood Brass & Steel. The thing is that it took all of them to do
what me & Maurice could do with just us 2. We would come into Sugar
Hill and play trumpet , trombone , bass and background vocals. So
she(Sylvia Robinson) didn’t need Wood Brass & Steel , or Keith Le Blanc , or Doug
Wimbish , or Harold Sargent. We took over Sugar Hill and the groups
started cutting with us and we began writing and producing. JQ:
Did y’all ever approach Sylvia with New Edition? MJ:……..I
don’t recall that…......but im not slighting those guys from Wood Brass
& Steel, they are some of my favorite studio musicians. Im just
telling you what she had in me & Maurice.
MJ:
Yes, but we didn’t do that there we had already cut that. It was
originally called Rappers Showdown. Maurice had released a record on
Boston International that got picked up by RCA, so he was already known
in New York. When we sent Sugar Hill records material she loved it and
was all over it. We had already cut Rappers Showdown and we had raps on
it already. Maurice & I were rapping on it. We also cut with
Sequence on Funky Sound Tear The Roof Off. We didn’t get credited for
it. We did Monster Jam by Brother To Brother. We did about a dozen
records over there. Sugar Hill was good for us. She paid us more in a
day than we were making in a year, (for the session work) but
unfortunately that we be all we would see. JQ:
So no royalties? MJ:
We were entitled to royalties, but we are pursuing that right now. Sugar
Hill is notorious for not paying. There is a science to finding the
right attorney to sue record labels because most of the attorneys are in
bed with the labels. They play both sides of the fence , so it may take
a lifetime to find the right attorney. JQ:
With Tommy Boy what kind of drum machines and vocoders were you using? MJ:
(Laughs)…..would a magician tell you his tricks? I would be crazy to
tell anyone what I used! JQ:
Well without getting into the model and make, were you using drum
machines or live drums for those recordings? MJ:
The Jonzun Crew used live drums. We incorporated some drum machines ,
but when you hear Pack Jam that’s live drums. That’s why it grooves
, and it cuts like it does. Space Is The Place , We Are The Jonzun Crew
are all live drums…. JQ:
How did you get along with your Tommy Boy label mates. MJ:
Afrika Bambaataa and I used to tour together. I have great admiration
and respect for his success. He truly deserves the recognition he has
received. I produced some of his recordings. We had a wonderful time at
Tommy Boy. The Force MDs ,
Planet Patrol – we grew up together. JQ:
Now is Planet Patrol just Arthur Baker & John Robie with some
random studio musicians? MJ:
No they weren’t just a random group at all!! Its like what did Burt
Bacharach & Hal Davis do after Dionne Warwick?....NOTHING!!!...
Arthur Baker & John Robie haven’t had a hit since Planet
Patrol….Thank You Very Much!!! Me & Arthur were very close, he used
to live at my house in the studio day & night working. Arthur &
John Robie were a good team. But Planet Patrol used to record with
Arthur baker under the name Glory!! Planet Patrol and Jonzun Crew are on
some of the same records together that
you probably wouldn’t know. They
were known as the Energetics, and they recorded on Atlantic Records and
Philadelphia International!!! They
are not just some guys that popped out of the blue with Play At Your Own
Risk. The truth has not been told!! I grew up with these guys in Boston.
They were one of the most popular bands in New England. Arthur Baker did
not discover Planet Patrol. He came up with the name Planet Patrol , but
they were already the Energetics, and they recorded under some other
names. Now you’re getting a good history lesson. They were probably
making 5000 dollars a week back in the seventies when we were making
1500. They were like the
Spinners , Dramatics and Temptations all in one. When Arthur grabbed
them they were already stars. JQ:
Why was it that Tommy Boy decided to grant the Jonzun Crew the first
full length lp on the label? Even the Soul Sonic Force never had a true
lp on Tommy Boy, it was just old songs thrown together like a
compilation. MJ:
As I said I love Afrika Bambaataa. But the Jonzun Crew was original.
When Planet Rock came out it was an infringement. Are you aware of that
sir? JQ:
You mean the reworking of Trans Europe Express by Kraftwerk? MJ:
Yes that’s a very serious offense, not to be taken lightly. We were
original, and no one till this day has accused me of taking anyones
material. As big as Planet Rock was it wasn’t Afrika Bambaataa, and
that is his signature in the music industry!! They got sued and had to
pay for that song! We were selling more records than anyone , and
playing for more than 15,000 people. I’ve
played for as many as 80,000 who paid to see me. 80,000 people never
came to see Afrika Bambaataa!! This is the documented truth!! Look up
Wild 100 in Miami Florida on August 25 , 1983, we had over 80,000 people
at our concert and we headlined. Soul Sonic Force would open for us!!
People have marketed Afrika Bambaataa & the Soul Sonic Force as a
name. They have never record an album. You’ve never seen a Soul Sonic
Force album.
MJ:
I grew listening to George Jones, Willie Nelson and Jean Autry. It was
called Country Western back then. I wasn’t supposed to like country
music as a Black person, so I made Space Cowboy to say this is who I am.
We put our space funk to it , and even added yodeling which Jean Autry
would always do. This music was not just purchased by Black people. I
was getting letters from Germany before the Berlin Wall fell. I have
letters from Spain, Russia all over. I have pictures of our name written
on the Berlin Wall before it was torn down. JQ:
How did you hook up with Tom Browne for the Rockin’ Radio &
Tommy
Gunn lps? MJ:
We were so huge. And you notice it had the vocoder. It was that new
fresh innovative sound that everyone wanted. He was a great musician and
he wanted it too, and we brought it home for him. JQ:
Did he seek you out? MJ:
Absolutely.
MJ:
Yes and Pack Jam was the only song to have a vocoder alone as the lead
voice. Many came after it like Scorpio by Grandmaster Flash & The
Furious 5 , and Jam On Revenge by Newcleus. But the Newcleus song had
real voices. Pack Jam was the first with just a vocoder alone!! And that
wasn’t a vocoder on Newcleus, it was something else. I know, but im
not gonna tell you I don’t tell people everything I know. (JayQuan is
laughing). But we used the vocoder as a dominant vocal instrument. That
isn’t a vocoder in Planet Rock. It’s a PCM 42 by Lexicon. That’s
what creates that regenerated feedback sound on Planet Rock. JQ:
What did you think of people like Newcleus , Nairobi , Egyptian Lover ,
Twilight 22 and others? MJ:
I was flattered, and glad because it made the music grow. If you’re
the only one doing something sometimes it doesn’t grow properly. Just
like when people want to bring down a building they put explosives in
several parts of the building to make it implode. One explosive would
not do the job correctly. It’s the same with music. Sometimes if you
want people to like what you’re doing and understand it, you have to
hit them from several angles. But no one else sounded like us. John
Robie and Arthur Baker programmed synthesizers. Everything you hear on
the Jonzun crew as far as synthesizers is a human playing. I was always
flattered that others wanted to do what I had done.
MJ
: It was a gentleman named Jesse Harris. He is a renowned stylist and
fashion designer in New York. Myself, Tom Silverman & Jesse worked
together on that. It was like classical meets the courts & judges of
that time. Like Mozart & Beethoven would dress that way, as well as
the great judges of that day. JQ
: Lets talk about New Edition. Did you contribute to the Candy Girl lp? MJ:
Of course. (Michael actually co- wrote Candy Girl , Jealous Girl , Should
Have , Pop Corn Love , Pass The Beat , Gimme Your Love , She Gives Me A
Bang and Is This The End). The success of the Jonzun crew made it easy
for New Edition to dove tail from my success. They will tell you
this..... If you look at Candy Girl, Space Cowboy &
Space is the Place, in fact Pack Jam and Space Is The Place pre date any
New Edition hits. Michael Jonzun was a huge star long before New Kids On
The Block or New Edition. I look forward to hearing your interview with
my brother (Maurice Starr) it should be wonderful. JQ:
Thank you for your time its an honor…. MJ:
Thank You!!
©
2007 JayQuan Dot Com No part may be copied without authors consent. |
marketing them from day one .I was before Run Dmc. I had million
dollar sellers before Run Dmc , and before independent record companies
were recognized as being leaders in the industry. People don’t realize
that you can sell a million records, but there was a certain process,
and you had to report sales to the RIAA (recording industry association
of America). Just because a record wasn’t certified gold or platinum
doesn’t mean that it didn’t go gold or platinum. Not all companies
were even interested in reporting that! Run Dmc had the marketing people
behind them to bring that information of the success of their records to
the forefront. We were selling records way before Run DMC , but its all
really irrelevant because when you're making money you don’t have to
tell anyone.
MJ:
You’re getting the untold story and the truth…. I had just produced
a blockbuster album in 1985 by Peter Wolf called Lights Out. It included
Mick Jagger , King Crimson , The Cars , Elliot Easton - who is one of the best
musicians of all times , we had the P Funk horns on it , and so many
other luminaries from the world of great music. Mick Jagger did a duet
with Peter Wolf that I co wrote and produced. This lp was a block buster
that was still going strong in 1987. I had been working with a lot of
rock bands , in fact I was invited to go on tour with Bruce
Springsteen’s band. I had also produced Clarence Clemons who is the
saxophonist for Springsteen’s band. The Jonzun Crew was in the studio
working on our next record.
Boston would run into the Jonzun Crew at times.
Steve Tyler had this manager who put me with him
heard. I have heard many great musicians such as Miles
Davis, John Coltrane, Buddy Rich , Sarah Vaughn , Billy Holiday , Ray
Charles , B.B. King and Lionel
JQ:
I just found out that Pack Jam was put out on your own label - Boston
International before Tommy Boy released it. It was also called Pak Man.
How did you set up your own label and when?
MJ:
The Outer space Visual Communicator, which really doesn’t mean
anything. You know how on the highway you see these electronic signs
that say accident in 3 miles or whatever. Well one of my partners was an
innovator. He was the keyboardist in our band. He suggested that we
needed our name in lights. He created this musical instrument that had
the Johnson Brothers name , and every key would spell a letter of our
name , and different notes would display different colors. This was very
outer space and futuristic at the time. This was in ’73. That was the
Outer space Visual Communicator.
JQ:
Was Showdown the first thing that you did over there?
JQ:
How did you come up with Space Cowboy?
JQ:
That Rockin’ Radio brought him back. That was a great song. That
vocoder was nice.
JQ: