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Accept No Substitutes – The Original Master Gee By JayQuan October 2005
It’s
an honor Gee, I have wanted to ask these questions for more than 20
years!
It
was probably ’77, and if you wanna call it Hip Hop music ; it was a
guy at a party spinning some records , and sayin’ some rhymes. I got
the idea from hearing that particular guy. I had heard through the
grapevine about rap , but im from Jersey & N.Y and Jersey were divided by
the water. If you weren’t really in the know you didn’t get to New
York a lot , but everything came across the bridge anyway. I had heard
about Flash at the Apollo and D.J. Hollywood , but I didn’t get the
chance to experience it , 'cus I wasn’t allowed to make that kind of
trek. The person that I heard was a high school friend of mine, who had
heard it and brought it over to Jersey to our neighborhood. His name was
Mark Green , and he runs a booking agency
called celebrity booking in Hackensack. What
year did you start , and tell me about some Jersey crews. Because there
is a misconception that I wanna clear up with this interview , and that
is that you guys didn’t rap before Mrs Rob. discovered you. What happened was, Mark was the only guy that I knew of doing this. I had a friend named Randy Riley and he & I got the idea to make extra money by putting together a D.J. group. I got that idea the weekend after hearing Mark. I had good knowledge of words and I said that’s easy , I can do that !! It was easy for me to write my first rhyme , and I never looked at it as a talent for writing. It was like putting a poem to music to me. We were doin’ our D.J. thing not too long after hearing Mark, and our first party was in Patterson. My first experience at rapping in front of a live audience was at that party. I played “Dance To The Drummers Beat”, and I had a lil table mic because my Dad was into recording and he recorded Jazz music , so he brought me some equipment to perpetuate this interest that I had in D.J.ing.
I did my first rhyme in this girls backyard while
spinning “Drummers Beat” and the crowd turned around and kinda
looked at me. They never stopped dancin’, but they kinda looked at me like
what is he doin’. That’s really how I started rappin’. We started
doing like 2 parties a week, mainly in Hackensack. I was all over
Hackensack. There was just two of us , so we called ourselves Phase 2.
Sound On Sound was an inspiration to us, because they were a major
organization with 10 or 15 rappers. They had Cerwin Vega speakers , and
we were using home stereos. We would put 2 home stereos together, like a
tape deck and a turntable , and switch from one to the other. My father
stepped up and got us turntables and a mixer, so we could really start
spinnin’. Sound
On Sound was the group that Wonder Mike was in right? Right.
They did parties everywhere – Englewood, Teaneck & Hackensack. Did
you already know Mike before SHG formed? No
, I knew of him ‘cus I was always checking out my competition , so I
went to Sound On Sound parties. I remember this place called Dales Dance
studio in Hackensack on Main St. They rented it out and threw big
parties. Me & Randy used to go there a lot. Randy eventually dropped
out of the group , and I got a new partner named Jerry Cokley , who was
also from Hackensack. Me & Wonder Mike knew of each other, but we
weren’t friends yet. We were all rappin’ , spinnin’ records ,
scratchin’ – all of it. I would spend hours in my friends attic
puttin’ my stuff together. So
you were scratchin’ records in Jersey before 1979? Yes
, this was before rap was on record. I was just doin’ what I had heard
from Mark and what I heard about Flash cuttin’ records. I was
scratchin and rappin at the same time. I would spin a record like
“Drummers Beat” because the break was so long , and I could rap at
the same time. I would rap for a few bars , then spin , and then rap
again….. Wow
, I had no idea that cats were doin’ anything on that level outside of
NY at that time. Yeah
we had felt mats, the Technics turntables with the curve arm. We had the
echo chamber and all that. I was cutting records long before I was a
recording artist. Ok
I read somewhere that the way that you guys came together as the
Sugarhill Gang was that Hank was working in a pizza shop ,and Joey came
in and heard Hank playing a tape ,and asked him if he could rap. Then
supposedly he auditioned in Joey’s car , and then you and Mike just
happened to be in the area , and you all ended up in the car. Was it
that random and coincidental?
Yes
!! This happened on Palisades Ave. On one side of the street was Mc
Donald's and the other side was Crispy Crusts where Hank made
pizzas…..I don’t know if you have ever heard how Sylvia even got the
whole idea to do a rap record. I
have heard some things, but please tell me.
So
it was as random as you just being in the right place at the right
time…. I
was in the right place, at the right time with the right sh*t. I have
been telling people that for 25 years!! In
retrospect do you regret walking down that street that day? No.
I regret some things that happened in the process of the whole
experience, but I don’t regret what I have been exposed to, and what I
have become as a result of it….not at all. So
they already had Good Times as the track. Yeah
because they were listening to Good Times on WBLS , and that’s where
they got the idea. That was the summer of ’79 and Good Times was the
record…"clams on the half shell and roller skates!!" That’s what she
heard at Harlem World also. Starski was cuttin’ up Good Times. Starski was
the one that got her interested in the whole idea. Yeah
I think it was Mele Mel who told me that Luvbug was supposed to rap over
the “Freedom” beat originally. I also heard that Sylvia was tryin’
to sign him. Yeah
he recorded a few songs for Sugarhill , that were never released. I was privileged
to be right there. Were
the songs any good? Yeah
very good. Now
how did Mike get down with the group. Well people don’t know that the cat from Sound On Sound had already given Sylvia a tape with Mike on it, but it was a poor performance , and she passed on him. After me & Hank auditioned on the street, we were invited to Mrs. Robs’ house to rap for her. Mike was there, and he was quiet the whole time. It was late at night and Mrs. Rob was about to go to bed. She had actually put her slippers on, and was on her way. Then Mike said “Mrs. Robinson you didn’t hear me rap. I know that you heard a tape of me, but I had a cold that night , and the tape wasn’t a good performance , but I would like for you to hear me now”. She almost told him no , because she was obviously tired , but she told him to go ahead. Man he started goin’ off. He was rappin’ about everything in the room , and just killin’ it !! It was so intense that he had an asthma attack !! And
you were right there and saw all this? Yeah
I was right there watching it all. Joey was about to take us back to
Palisades Ave so that we could all go our separate ways, and Mike spoke
up at the last minute. After he started weezing and stuff she said
“look , im not gonna choose between the three of you , but 3 is my
favorite number , so I will use all three of you”. If you remember the
Moments (Ray,Goodman & Brown) were a 3 member group on her label.
But that’s how we came together. The only person that wasn’t
actively Emceeing was Hank. He was a body guard for the Cold Crush
Brothers , Herc and all
them. Mike & I were Emceeing every weekend. We were the premiere
Mc’s in the Teaneck /Englewood/ Hackensack area. There were only 2
groups at that point – Phase 2 and Sound On Sound. It
sounds like that record and group was supposed to happen. Not tryin’
to sound deep or anything, but there were a lot of random things that
happened to bring you guys together. Yes
it was meant to happen ! Not
a lot of time passed between you recording Rappers Delight , and then
stuff like Hot Hot Summer Day , Rappers Reprise (Jam Jam) and Sugarhill
Groove . Was it that you were gonna release those whether Rappers
Delight had been successful or not ?
Well
you answered my next question , which was did Sylvia allow you any
creative control. It sounds like she pretty much gave you the freedom to
create. Yes
, but she would down your idea if she didn’t like it. She had final
approval. For Hot Summers Day I went to How
was it working with Sequence , it sounded like you all were having fun
on Rappers Reprise. It
was fun. We recorded back then like the older days of recording, where
everyone was in the studio at the same time. Remember the whole concept
was putting a party on a record , and that’s why all those songs have
party tracks on them. We would leave tracks open just for crowd noises ,
and party effects. Yeah
I remember enjoying the Furious 5 in the background on 8th
Wonder.
I
never saw the original crew live. There was a show here in VA back in
’81 at an amusement park called Kings Dominion. The show was Mean
Machine , Furious , Sequence and ya’ll. As soon as Furious came out
doin’ the syncopated steps to Flash cutting Good Times it poured down
raining. So I saw like 2 minutes of them perform… I
remember Kings Dominion. We never got a chance to go on due to the rain.
That was the Sugarhill revue. At the time she had all the artists on the
label going around the country. She came from the Motown era, and she
did what Berry Gordy did with the Motown revue. We were really like the
Motown of the 80s. But as far as Mel, New York New York is one of my
favorites by him. Yeah
mine too. The part about the sky was crying rain & hail, when you
put yo baby in the garbage pail was dope. And the verse in Beat Street
about Mussolini and the Shah of Iran. That’s
like Hemingway type sh*t man !!! He has never been given the credit that
he deserves. I used to go in when he laid his vocals down at the studio,
and it was a real treat to watch him record.,,,,did you ever see us live
when we had musicians behind us? Yeah
, but I can’t remember it as well as I would like. Was that Positive
Force? Yes,
back when Rappers Delight first came out , but after that everything was
the Sugar hill band , and they ended up playing on all the tracks. Is
that the group that used to be called Wood, Brass and Steel ? Yep…Doug
Wimbish and them. You missed a hell of a show if you missed
those. Yeah
that band killed it. I think that they played so many songs better than
the original group. I would even dare to say that the Rappers Delight
track is a little more raw than Good Times. Oh
yeah , that was ‘cus these were some cats that were straight outta the
gutter , they were from Philly and they were tryin’ to get their thing
together. They toured with us for years. I was disappointed when we had
to stop touring with a band due to the costs. I was really
disappointed. I am a musician myself. I have been a drummer since I was
7. There were times on the show when I played on stage.
I
remember reading on ya’lls first lp that you had a pilots license when
you were 17… Yeah
, my father was a corporate pilot who flew for a medical company called Beckett & Dickson. He was also an instructor , and he had
me flying at like 7 years old. We had a private plane and he would sit
me in the co-pilot seat. I was aspiring to be a commercial pilot as a
teen. How
was it being 17 with a smash hit record out , that’s the first of
it’s kind? Didn’t you have to drop put of school and get a tutor? Well
the record blew up right around September of my senior year. We had been
in school about a month. My mom went to the school to try to convince
them that I had a career going , but I wanted to finish school. They
told us that if I didn’t show up for school that I was gonna fail. We
then went to a tutor up in the cliffs , and she had me doing times
tables! Im in the 12th grade tryin' to graduate , and she has
me doing times tables. So I went to her only once. That is one regret,
that I ended up dropping out and never got my diploma. It didn’t do
anything to me , I mean I’ve made more money in my life probably than
any of my teachers !!! But I did regret not completing school. Did
your mom have to sign your Sugarhill contract , and if so was she
reluctant? Yes.
At 17 no contract is a legal situation , ‘cus you’re a minor. In
order for me to record my mother had to endorse the contract , and I
still have a copy of that with her signature on it till this day. How
did she feel about you joining the group? She
didn’t want me to do it. My mother was a Brooklyn native and she was
real street savvy , as well as my stepfather. They knew of Sylvia , and
her reputation wasn’t good. But I was a very persuasive young man ,
and I eventually persuaded her to sign but at first she didn’t wanna
do it. She was saying “ohh let’s have some body look at it first”
, but I was 17 and young – full of piss & vinegar, and I wanted to
get this record out; I didn’t wanna waste any time. Then on the other
side they were tellin’ me if you don’t’ hurry and sign we will
have to take your vocals off , and they had me goin’. So I was rushing
my mom telling her that I didn’t wanna be the one to mess the whole
thing up , and piss the people off !! Just to make me happy she signed
the contract…. Were
the rhymes that you guys used for Rappers Delight already written , or
were they specifically written for that song? Because everybody was
talking about something different , but it all meshed into a 15:00
minute song – which is very impressive.
Refresh
the people on how that one went….. “It
was 12:00 one Friday night , I was rockin’ to the beat feelin alright ,everybody was dancing on the floor , doin' all the things
they never did before – then a fly fly girl with a sexy lean came into
the party / she came into the scene , as she made it deeper inside the
room , all the fellas checked out her white Sasoons….” That verse
was about being at a party rappin’ , and Tonya comin’ in the party ,
and she had on a pair of white Sasoons . At the time Sasoons was hot. But
that whole rap was about Tonya – Guy’s mother. I always thought that
she was an attractive girl , but not being as savvy as I wanted to be ,
I
didn’t think that I had a chance. But the day after the auditions I
woke up in the middle of the night and wrote that. During the audition I heard Hank
say something about a masterpiece , and that word stuck in my head.
That’s why I say “it’s time for me to release, my vicious rhyme I
call my masterpiece”. That was also a chance to say the name Phase 2
(the group ya hear is called Phase 2 , and let me tell ya somethin’
we’re a hell of a crew). The last part where I say “at the age of 1
my life begun……” that was a rap that I did at parties. But my
first 2 verses were written just for Rappers Delight. When
the song goes off it sounds like you were still goin , as they fade you
out. I used to turn the stereo all the way up at the end of that song
and at the end of Freedom ,so that I could hear EVERYTHING that you and
Cowboy said !!!
Ok.
Sugarhill Groove is my favorite song by you guys. In fact Kool Moe Dee
asked me to make a cd of some stuff that he wanted , and that was the
main one that he requested. That was a very underrated song
that is missing (along with Mean Machines Disco Dream) off of
many of the Sugarhill Records greatest hits compilations. Anyway was
Tito Puente actually in the studio with you guys when you recorded that? No,
but I saw him lay that track down. He went off. He lived in Teaneck ,
and he was a friend of Sylvia’s.
They all came from Harlem ,& the Bronx and they came up in
that 1960 ish time. But Tito was a Latin king
, and Sylvia was the queen of Do Wop. Sylvia would bring in all
the best musicians , ‘cus she knew ‘em all!! She would call 'em up to
do sessions. She knew all the violinists , and the best horn players.
They would come in and do the sessions. We had already did the track and
Sylvia said that she wanted some cool timbales right there. She made the
call and he showed up and did the session. Yes
he did. He did it big. That song was on your first lp , and then
appeared again as a flip side to 8th wonder and people still
aren’t familiar with it. Whose idea was all the chants like Suga Suga
Suga?
On
the first lp there was some good r&b like “Here I Am” ,
“Passion Play” and “Bad News”. Did you have any input in those
songs , or were they just filler for the album? They
were just cuts on the album , because we were working on establishing
our image as entertainers. We didn’t want just rap songs on there. We
were there for the sessions , but we didn’t sing or play anything. Did
you guys ever feel any animosity from your label mates….not Sequence
or Wayne and Charlie type people , but the Bronx cats like Furious and
Funky 4? There
was always an undertone man. Because people didn’t know that we were
legitimate rappers – they thought that we were just this put together
super group that was thrown on this record. But I will
be the 1st to say it – it started in the Bronx.
Sugarhill Gang didn’t start it , we just brought it to the world. We
did not create the art form , it was Kool Herc , Flash , Mele Mel ,
Hollywood , Starski they are the inventors. I
just did a song called “Still In The Game” for our new cd , where I
dedicate my verse to those
guys. My verse says “this is dedicated to the fact , you gotta
recognize the true pioneers of rap , so roll it up , take a toke do
whatever you like , cus tonight’s the night we gonna make it right”.
I totally attribute them to being the ones.
But
in the beginning our label mates didn’t want to come to Jersey , but
they had to break down , because the Mecca was in Jersey now. They
started trekking over the bridge to Sugarhill Records because that’s
where it was happening. So a lot of them were like “we gotta come to
Jersey , and this is our thing blah blah blah…”. Plus at that time we
had cars , jewelry and girls hanging around, and everybody after us had
to come up. So there was always a little tension and sibling rivalry
there. On stage it was always competing , and trying to out do each
other. There was a lil intensity goin’ on. Whose
idea was “Showdown”? That
came from Sylvia. That original track was by Maurice Starr & Michael
Johnson (Jonzun). They came to the studio with the New Edition idea and
Sylvia shot it down. What
?? Yeah
can you believe that sh*t? So
the entire Showdown track was just those guys? Just
the original demo was. She added stuff to it , but the whole basis was
theirs – the bassline and everything. At first we were gonna do it ,
then Sylvia said no let Flash & them do it. Like I said she had
final approval on that kinda stuff , but I heard the track and some of
the others that they gave her , and I wanted them for us. Like I said I
was damn near on her hip most of the time so I when those decisions were
being made many times I was right there. She
agreed for a minute to let us have it , then she said no I don’t think
that y’all fit on that one , and she went back & forth between us
& Flash. Finally she said I know what, I will put both of you on it.
That started a lil bit of a funk because we thought that we were doing a
duet WITH them , not a battle. They brought that to it. That’s why we
sound like we are just having a good time partying ..”forget about ya
problems throw away ya bills”….we didn’t even write it like a
battle.
They came with “a Showdown its all the way live”. They
were more aggressive , so all that sh*t was driven by them. We
were having a good time like “do you wanna have a party,do you wanna
make a scene , then scream”. They turned it into a battle because that
tension was always there. That was their opportunity to show the world
that they were better than us. Were
you in the studio at the same time? Yeah
they were there when we laid down our vocals and we were there when they
laid theirs. It was funny ‘cus we didn’t know everything that was
goin’ on. As it went on and they said more and more we saw that they
were tryin’ to do us. By this time we had wrote and recorded it, so it
was no time to go back and change anything. When the
fans & D.J.s got it they liked it that way.
Where
did the idea for Apache come from?
By
the time that y’all were making Hot Summer Day and 8th
Wonder rap records were being released by other groups weekly.
What did you think of those records by your competition so to speak. I
remember hearing “if my Mercedes break down and dog my grill , im
gonna drive up in a new Seville”. I liked all that…we never had a
problem with anybody , they usually had a problem with us. We enjoyed
what we heard. I liked the Treacherous 3 stuff on Enjoy Records. We loved it
all. But we felt like the more the merrier. We had our position, we were
on Dick Clark , we weren’t worried about anybodies stuff !! “Lover
In You” was my joint. I like how you flipped it and deepened your
voice and all that. Were y’all at all reluctant to do that one , since
it was so different?
Despite
what people say about her business practices , it seems that she knew
what the hell she was doin’ with those records !! Listen
man. I don’t hate , I give props to those who deserve it. As a writer
, producer and artist – she is one of the best that ever
did it !!! She taught me a wealth of knowledge about writing ,
performing and recording. The whole sh*t man!! Now Joey he don’t have
1/3…….he don’t have an ounce of talent in his body. You
are speaking of Joey Jr right…the son. Yeah
Joey Robinson – no talent at all. I don’t give a damn what anybody
says. He is a duplicator and that’s all. Yeah
I think that it was Clayton Savage who told me that he didn’t do
anything in the West Street Mob.
(JayQuan
is laughing)…. But
his mother just has an ear for that sh*t man. She is a musical genius. What
about Joseph Sr. Was he just responsible for the business aspects?
On
“Funk Box”, ”On The Money” and “Giggalo” from the 8th
Wonder Lp you guys were very involved in those r&b songs right? Yes,
by then we were showcasing our talents. Mike was playing bass and I was
playing the drums and we were singing at the time , and getting into the
production end of things. What
are
your 3 favorite songs by Sugar Hill Gang ? Wow.
You ever hear of a song called Blade? It had the beat from Malcolm Mc
Laren. No
, I remember the joint called Troy about a guy named Blade….is that
it? Yes
, Troy – that was produced , arranged
and written by me and Mike. It was our first attempt at producing. They
didn’t really push that fact, because back then rappers weren’t known
as producers. Anyway Troy, Livin’ In The Fast Lane and 8th
Wonder. Wow,
no Rappers Delight? Nope.
Not in the top 3. You
ever get tired of hearing it? Sometimes,
because you have to remember that Rappers Delight was the first time
that I ever recorded. There are things in the song that im not happy
with. Some of my performance im not cool with , and my voice sounds like
a baby. Don’t get me wrong I like the song , it’s a good song just
not one of my favorites. I understand the significance of the song and I
enjoyed recording it , but it’s
not one of my favorites. What’s
your least favorite song by SHG? And why? Sh*t,
that’s a good question……it would have to be Girls (from the Livin’
In The Fast Lane Lp). I hated that song. It was an r&b song by a
group called the Whatnauts that actually recorded on one of Sylvia's labels.
It was an attempt to take lyrics that were sung and make them into rap.
It was a total stretch to even record that song , I was uncomfortable
the whole time.
No.
I know the complete facts and the fact of the matter is unfortunately we
didn’t know at the time. Let me tell you the whole thing about this.
Hank came to Jersey. Remember that New York and New Jersey are
separate. I didn’t’ even know anything about Caz , the only thing I knew
was that there was this guy from the Bronx who could rap (that was Hank).
When we went to the studio to record, we were under the assumption
‘cus Mike wrote all his stuff and I wrote all mine. That’s what you
did , if you were a rapper , you wrote rhymes. When Hank started with “Im the C-A-S AN the O-V-A and the
rest is F-L-Y we didn’t know , the sh*t sounded But
what we noticed was when we went to do pre production for Sugarhill
Groove and all those songs – it was like ok it’s writing time. I would write
something , Mike would write somethin’ , we would ask each other what
we thought about the rhymes. When we got to Hank he had his pad , but
never had anything!! This struck us as odd , and we were like damn you
said all that on Rappers Delight, what happened? So we eventually found
out, and what happened was he never wrote on anything. He gets no
mechanical royalties on any of the songs because he never wrote
anything. I get BMI (royalty payment from the BMI publishing company) ,
Mike gets BMI. So
who was writing his parts for Apache , Lover In You , Sugarhill Groove
etc etc? We
were. Everything Hank said was written for him !! Hank is like Dionne
Warwick. She might not write a word but she has the voice. That’s how
Hank is. He gets on the mic man with “clap ya hands everybody” (Gee
is imitating Hanks voice). Each one of us has very special distinctive
sounding voices. But when you wrote something for him and he finally got
it , it was magic. But initially we didn’t know that he didn’t write
it. In the last few weeks at the Hip Hop Honors and pre party I ran into
Caz and we talked about it. Cus we did a free outdoor concert in the
Bronx , and there was a guy out there heckling us sayin “y’all aint
sh*t” and stuff like
that. It turned out that the guy was Caz’s nephew. Now SHG is in the
Bronx so it’s like oh my
God. Things got a lil tight , but the crowd still got into us
, but the tension was there ‘cus the kid was goin’ thru the
audience and he was kinda wild. Come to find out at the Honors, he was at the show and it was
Caz’s nephew. What??!! Yes
man. And let me tell you , I have heard that song for 20 years , and I stood right beside Hank performing it on stage. I was in the studio when
it was recorded , but I have never heard that rap sound better than that
night!!! Mike said his part and passed it to Caz and that Mother F*cker
said “im tha CAS AN the OVA” that sh*t was incredible. When he passed it to me ,
I was so amped that I brought the house down !! It turned into an old
school party. Q Tip was D.J,ing and Mel got up there and did some stuff
and hyped the crowd up. Im
told that the Message was offered to quite a few groups , yours included
and you turned it down. Yes.
But the Message that you hear now is not the original Message that she
wanted us to do. It had some tribal sounding drums in it , it was
totally different. Ed
Fletcher (Duke Bootee) came to her with the idea , and the track. Sylvia
and Jiggs Chase changed the whole thing up and made it more danceable.
We were gonna do it first because Ed Fletcher used to be the
percussionist in our band. We got the first chance at it. In fact we
went in and tried it , but Sylvia didn’t want us talking about those
kinda things. She said that our fans would not receive it well and that
it didn’t fit our image. Do
you regret passing it up in retrospect? Yes.
When it all came together and I heard it , I thought that it would have
been a great song for us. But maybe if we did it ,
it wouldn’t have
been a great song. But I do regret it. What
was the atmosphere like recording in a place that has Candi Staton ,
Jack Mc Duff and Phillipe Wynn of the Detroit Spinners on the roster? Phillipe
Wynn and I used to play basketball in the parking lot of the studio
man…that was the atmosphere. All the older cats there were like
mentors and teachers to us. Jack Mc Duff was like one of the wise men.
Shirley from Shirley & Company (Shame, Shame, Shame) was the
receptionist. She used to sit and spend time talking to me. The
atmosphere was like a big family. Again it was like the Motown of the
80s. Lil
Rodney C from the Funky 4 has a photo album with a lot of pics from that
Sugarhill Revue tour , im sure that you also have a lot of pics and
memorabilia. No
I don’t. I had a serious meltdown after that period in my life, so I
never kept any of that, but I wish that I did now. I have never really
lived in the arena of being an icon. I have been so removed from the
whole thing for so long. Even now I know the significance of what we did
but I don’t see myself that way. Was
Livin’ In The Fast Lane an attempt to talk about social issues like
the Message? Well
that was me there. At that time in my life everything was gone to hell.
Financially I was messed up , I had just broken up with my sons mother ,
I had been exposed to street life. The Fast Lane was semi-
autobiographical and me purging myself of what happened. Initially Fast
Lane was my solo song. I know that you collect obscure and rare stuff
– there was a limited pressing with just me rapping on the whole song.
.....Well it may not have actually gotten pressed up , but the recording exists ,
unless it got burned up in the studio. The group was goin’ through
hell at this time: Mike was trippin’, Hank was goin’ thru stuff so I
said I will go solo. I got the tape with the music and wrote the whole
thing. Initially
I was gonna be the only one on it. The first verse “you're from the
streets playin’ ya games everybody knows ya face and respects your
name” was about a guy named Joe Rock. He was a hustler that took me
under his wing when things got crazy. The verse that says “you’re a
fly kid livin high on the hog/got a lotta money aint got no job” was
about Joey Robinson. “Ya daddys rich , mommas good lookin / live in maid
to do all ya cookin” – that’s him. The last part about worshipping
material things and smoking good reefer and sniffin’ cocaine was about
me. What
do you think of todays rap scene? Well
it has given our community the option that it needed for success. Before
rap if you were black you could be a singer , actor , comedian or an
athlete. Once this music became a multi billion dollar industry it gave
us another option. It opened doors for people who couldn’t do those
things. Now rappers are becoming actors , and they wouldn’t have
gotten the chance to act if not for rap. What's
up with your new group MG Squad?
What
prompted you to leave the industry in 1985 , and what kind of business
do you own now? My
son prompted me. I couldn’t feed him. From '83 – '85 was the worst
situation for me financially. The tours had stopped and the records
weren’t selling. There were no product endorsements or clothing lines.
You made a hot record and toured , and the record sold. If it didn’t
you were financially strapped. I was young and dumb and spent all my
money and I couldn’t buy diapers or clothes. Im a natural born
hustler, I was a hustler from before – I did the parties and
everything. It wasn’t happening in music for me and a winner does what
he has to do , not necessarily what he wants to do. I had to go somewhere and start over and as far as I was
concerned my career in music was over. Then I got into the magazine
industry. I had no diploma , no job skills and I was 23 and never had a
job in my life. This job said no experience necessary ,must
be free to travel. The only thing that I had really done was
travel so that was no problem. I interviewed for it , I got the job on
the spot , and I packed my bags and left. I knew that I couldn’t start
over in New York , I had to get away. If I had a manual labor job the
peer pressure would have pushed me out……. My
timing was right on again because I met a guy who was into building
black businessmen. He taught me the magazine industry. I went from being
a door to door salesperson , to building door to door sales crews. I had
5 sales teams of people all over the country going door to door. I ended
up merging with some other cats in my industry and buying a customer
service company that I used to do business with. We processed and
customer serviced every order sold with these sales companies across the
U.S. I do motivational speaking , business administration , delegating.
This is what I do everyday. My reason for leaving is 22 years old now ,
and his name is Guy Jr. Had I not had a child I would have probably went
the whole starving artist route. Ok
, my last question is how did you get on Atlantic Records for the
“Do It” single?
Man
I saw 4 minutes of that movie, and I couldn’t stand anymore. I will
rent it just to hear what you did , maybe I can stomach it this
time….it sucked…. Special
thanks to Slick Rick Of Rockmaster Scott & The Dynamic 3 , DJ Kenny
Yoda of the Legendary Crash Crew and Hen Dog – hype man for The Sugarhill
Gang & MG Squad Photo of Big Bank Hank & Grandmaster Caz @ Crotona Park '04 courtesy of Joe Conzo (www.joeconzo.com)
Look
Ma I finally did it !! J
© 2005 5 Mic Media May not be reproduced without authors consent.
|
Aight
family , this one is 25 or so years in the making. Despite what many of
my peers , and Hip Hop heroes think or say , the Sugarhill Gang is
official. For those of us who were not in NYC in the 70’s , and not
able to hear and see the Furious 5 , Cold Crush Brothers and other
founding fathers ; SHG is the template. The Sugarhill Gang is Master Gee
, Wonder Mike and Big Bank Hank.
Sylvia
has a niece named Debra. Debra threw Sylvia a birthday party at this
club called Harlem World. Sylvia saw Starski (Luv Bug) in the party
spinnin’ , and people were rhymin’. At the time her labels (All
Platinum, Turbo, Stang & Vibration) were not doing too well. She asked Debra about
this rap thing, and Debra told her that it was popular and that everyone
was doing it. That’s when she got the idea to put it on record. Now
originally they found another guy that was down with Sound On Sound, and
they had recorded the Good Times track already. They had decided to do
the song to this Good Times beat, and they just needed an Emcee. They
went to talk to him in front of Mc Donald's and he backed out. They had
heard of this guy from the Bronx that worked in the pizza parlor across
the street that could rap. They made a u-turn and went to the pizza spot
to check him out. In the process of all this me and another friend, who
happens to be named Mark Green also, were walking down the street. Mark
knew Sylvia and them, and he stopped to talk to Joey. Joey told him that
they were looking for rappers, and Mark told them that I could rap , so
I got in the car and started rhymin’ A few people stopped on the
street to see what was goin’ on.
We
were able to do a lot of work off of Rappers Delight because it was so
huge. We were touring a lot , so in the process of us touring Mrs. Rob
was thinking that we need to be putting an album together. We started
recording those songs in January or so (of 1980). For Hot Summers Day
– remember when all this started I was only 17 years old – well when
I turned 18 I got my own apartment. It was really hot one day , like
Jersey summers are , and I actually woke up and I had A.C. but it
wasn’t central air , so I was just thinking of how hot it was and how
much I love the summers.
That inspiration came to me based on that experience. I had little
signature things that I would do if you listen to the songs. Like on Hot
Summers Day I had the “freak freak the funk” , or on Rappers Delight
I had “on & on & on on & on”. For Rappers Reprise the
“Jam Jam Jippy The Jam” was mine too. The songs were just comin'.
Like me & Mike were the Mc Cartney & Lennon of the group. I
would come up with an idea and bring it to Mike and we just did it
together. For Rappers Reprise I was riding in the car with Joey , and I
told him about this hook that I couldn’t get out of my head…
the musicians with the concept ,
and they worked the music around it. I wanted it to be kinda mellow with
the singin’ and stuff , ‘cus I wanted it to sound like a summer
song. A lot of the time the tracks were done , and we wrote to the
tracks. I would come in the studio and they would play the tracks , and
I would tell them which ones I wanted on tape. I would take the tape to
Mike , and we would write to the music. I was always in the studio
hanging around , because I had a mother – son relationship with Mrs.
Rob ; we were very close. 
8th
Wonder is the ultimate party track !!
Certain
rhymes were written just for the song , and others were already written.
The M-A-S-T-E-R G with a double E part was written specifically for that
song. I wanted something to introduce myself. It says “my name is
known all over the world with all the foxy ladies and pretty girls”.
At the time I was just a kid from a small town in Jersey , and im 17- tryin’
to get laid and all that kinda stuff , and I had issues about that stuff
– I didn't think that I was the best lookin’ guy ; so the record was
a chance to be who I wanted to be. I wanted to be a ladies man in real
life , but didn’t feel that I had the ability. We weren’t as
fortunate as many people, especially in our community. I needed a way to
introduce myself , so I spelled it out. Till this day people spell their
names out in raps because of Rappers Delight. The on & on part was
somethin’ that I said in the parties all the time. The 12:00 rap, I
woke up in the middle of the night and wrote , and it was about my sons
mother. 
Oh
yeah…that was my chance !!! See you gotta understand , I went through
physical abuse as a child , self esteem issues , self doubt – all
kinds of stuff. I always felt that I was gonna do SOMETHING. I told my
mother that before she signed the contract. She was giving me a hard
time about what I was gonna do with my life and all that. I
That
was all of us . And to her credit Sylvia was a great writer and producer
as well. On Rappers Reprise the part that goes “you’re vicious ,
nutritious
like a slice of pie you’re so delicious – you’re fine so divine ,
id like to manipulate your mind – she wrote that with me. All these
songs were like acting out ya know. We were having a great time. There
was no politics goin’ on , no multi million dollars at stake , it was
none of that – we were just recording. We were doin’ somethin’
that we never did before. We were young and out of our poverty
situations and that’s why all that stuff sounds so pure.
Again
Sylvia was instrumental in that , but we were going through breakbeats.
You know that was the formula , get a breakbeat and produce original
music around it. She had access to musicians so they played the break
beat , then made basslines and stuff for the main parts.
No
we weren’t reluctant. That again was Sylvia and this guy from England
-
Pete Wingfield , who had a big record called “Number 1 With A
Bullet” I think. But "Lover In You" was a spin off of “Its Great To Be The
Queen” , as far as the music. All that was done around the same time. By this time my image
was this ladies man and the whole 9 and my voice added to that. Sylvia
knew how to record me. On 8th Wonder I liked how my voice
came out also; she did that. She recorded me , EQed it and got that
performance out of me.
He
didn’t. He will tell people that he and his mother produced those
songs but he didn’t produce that sh*t
He
is one of my mentors too. I learned a lot about business from him , as
far as what to do and what not to do. He was a master at his business!!
Ok
I don’t want you to speak for Hank ; I would love to talk to him one
day , but the whole thing with Caz and his rhymes; from your angle what
happened with that. Now Caz does openly admit that he gave his notebook
to Hank and said take what you want. But I wanna know did Hank say any
rhyme that was not Grandmaster Caz’s in Rappers Delight?
good !!!
MG
Squad is Mike & Gee , which is me & Wonder Mike. We have half of
our album done. We have about 6 more songs to do , and we hope to
release it in January. This is a project that Mike & I have wanted
to do for years. We wanted to work together for the longest time under
different conditions. This is a labor of love for us ,and a chance to
bring our sons out to the world. They are both talented and we want them
to be able to approach this from a better situation than we did. We
wanna do a Quincy Jones type of thing. On this Lp we are bringing out our
sons. Next one might be a group that we just met and are working with.
That’s what the Squad part represents.
(Laughs)..You
know a lotta sh*t !!!…….Atlantic Records came as a result of me
being in a recording session with the Sugarhill band and running into an
attorney named Mark Christinni (right place/right time again). The guy
walked pass me and recognized me as Master Gee , and hooked me up with
an A&R person from Atlantic. The guy that signed me to the deal was
the same guy that signed Twisted Sister. They negotiated the deal with
an option for an album. Marley Marl produced the session , and the song
was ok. It was done out in Queens. I wasn’t creatively powerful or in
my zone at the time. It sounded dated because I was so stuck in the
Sugarhill way of recording. I was waiting for the signing bonus and it
never came thru so that prompted me to go and get a job.